“Be guided by what you enjoy”: An interview with Jerone Marsh Reid and Danielle Bird stars of Charlie and Stan

As part of the London Mime Festival, Charlie and Stan, from Told by an Idiot, returns to the stage at Wilton’s Music Hall. It kicks off the 30^th anniversary of the theatre company and embarks on a tour this spring. This is a show about Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel, before their fame, and their journey together as part of Karno’s circus troupe – a fairly unknown point in their histories, but a thrilling insight into the lives of two comedic greats.

We spoke to actors Danielle Bird and Jerone Marsh Reid, who play Charlie and Stan respectively, about their roles, the wider world of mime and the impact of the show on today’s audiences. Bird’s eclectic theatre credits include a range of shows at the New Vic (among them Alice in Wonderland and Beauty and the Beast), Macbeth at Shakespeares Globe and Magician’s Assistant with You Me Bum Bum Train. Marsh Reid’s ascending career has included (of many) roles in Marvellous at the New Vic and the Breathe the Beat UK tour.

How do you prepare for your roles?

Jerone Marsh Reid: Firstly, I dive deep into the research of Stan Laurel and watch numerous Laurel and Hardy films and focus on getting Stan’s physicality back into my body. This will be our third tour of the show, so fortunately I know how physically demanding the show is. The next step is just getting myself fit and preparing for some classic slapstick falls, hits on the head and crawling into tight spaces.     

Danielle Bird: At first I had the pleasure of simply watching Charlie Chaplin films and started to absorb his body of work. Organically, whilst watching, I found myself mirroring his mannerisms, often compelled to get up and walk around the room adopting his style. I also dipped into his autobiography, as well as watched documentaries so I could learn about the man as well as his famous Tramp character. A couple of times, for fun, I challenged myself at home to do tasks as though I was Charlie devising a routine. I’d say this is unusual for me but with the absence of script and therefore line-learning I felt like the work outside of the rehearsal room was “body-learning”.

Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel were visionaries of their time. Who would you say are their contemporaries, and do you draw inspiration from them? 

JMR: Oh this is a tricky one, especially because at one point Chaplin was the most famous man in the world! That is tough to compete with. So thinking more recently, for me, I love Jim Carrey’s work – the physical detail in his roles is second to none. I watched The Grinch again this Christmas and I was blown away by it. It’s not exactly slapstick but it does feel like it sits in a similar world. Another person I think truly understands comedy is Jos Houben. He has helped develop Charlie and Stan twice, and I can honestly say I have never worked with anyone who knows more about comedy than him. He’s a brilliant teacher, performer and person. 

When it comes to duos, there are two that spring to mind: Will Ferrell and John C Reilly and Keegan-Michael Key and Jordan Peele. Being a comedy duo is tough, I think, because it’s all about balance and also creating and allowing space for the other person to shine. Laurel and Hardy seemed to put the focus on making their co-actor funny as opposed to themselves. I think all four of these do that very well. I take massive inspiration from all of those brilliant people.   

DB: I’d say an influential contemporary of Charlie’s that inspired me is Buster Keaton – although some of his big stunts are reserved purely for film editing magic.

There has previously been a lot of controversy surrounding Charlie Chaplin. In the current socio-political climate, how well do you think this character will be received?

JMR: In this show, we mainly focus on the story of how Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel travelled to America together, so we don’t dive too deep into Charlie’s controversial behaviour. We do, however, touch upon Charlie’s temper and selfishness. It’s important to add that we do speak about the controversial things in the rehearsal room, but this show is really about the exciting time in his early career when he was touring with Stan Laurel as part of Karno’s troupe, before his worldwide fame.

DB: Not everyone knows about the controversial life Charlie led, and this piece doesn’t delve into those aspects. I’d suggest that the sharing of the specifics of his life is maybe the job of the documentaries (which the recent film The Real Charlie Chaplin does so brilliantly). We celebrate his work, rather than the man, in our piece. We touch upon his anger management and his flirtations but, uniquely, our show explores the exciting time of his life and the industry, where he was working with Fred Karno’s troupe of actors alongside Stan Laurel, his understudy – a moment in history not universally known. We discuss the controversial aspects in our rehearsal room and it is important we know the truth when taking on these characters and their stories. I’d say being a woman playing Chaplin is particularly interesting from our 2023 perspective and maybe helps reclaim somehow the lack of autonomy, power and ownership of women during this time period.

Is comedy acting something you’ve always wanted to do?

JMR: Interestingly, not really. In real-life situations, I’d say I’m quite funny (modest I know) but I wouldn’t necessarily say that translated on stage so didn’t really see that as an option. I remember when I decided I wanted to become an actor, my dream was to do gritty TV dramas and serious plays, but one of my closest friends, Ryan Morrissey (who is also an actor) said to me, “You should start utilising your comic ability as you are actually quite funny, you know.” And, funnily enough, since graduating from drama school, most of the work I have done has been in comedy. 

DB: When I first graduated at the age of 21 I felt like I wanted to do a lot of “epic” Shakespeare acting in a big frock… somehow, though, I kept landing the comedy sidekick or the physical comedy role, quite often playing male roles or a surprising amount of mythical creatures, contorting myself or providing more extreme physicalities. I believe my last role at drama school was the springboard into character acting as the part was so far removed from me. Initially [I was] annoyed that I was playing an age 30 years senior to my own, in that typical way at drama school with young students in a class; however, diving into a completely different age, accent, rhythm, worries and physicality was enlightening for me. I also somehow accidentally fell into circus work where the relationship with the audience is quite exposing, ad-lib, interactive and improvisational, and therefore leaning into the comedic and absurd. I got to put this combo of experience into practice in Richard Bean’s play The Hypocrite at the RSC where my role Drudge has no lines but is onstage most of the time. Drudge is the accidentally acrobatic, incompetent 108-year-old manservant of the household, and the butt of the jokes. To communicate without words was freeing somehow and forces you to be very specific with movement and gesture to land the gags.

If you could pass on any words of wisdom to someone wanting to get into mime, what would they be? 

JMR: I’d say look out for workshops; I’d recommend people with an understanding of Jacques Lecoq mainly, because the teacher that taught me was Lecoq-trained and had such a great understanding of the work. Although learning in person is always the best, if you are unable to attend those classes there are always online classes and YouTube. I feel like I’m going to get in trouble for mentioning YouTube but starting something new can be daunting and expensive, so do whatever suits you the best. 

DB: I feel like there are so many paths towards this journey and mine has certainly been a slow yet steady one, growing from the enjoyment of the genre leading me to the next, and luckily landing on exciting projects with various styles. I’m lucky as I do a lot of comedy, physical theatre, or circus-based projects, but also physiological pieces, and I’ve managed to fit in Shakespeare too. So I’d say be guided by what you enjoy. If it’s specifically mime you’d love to try, then seek out a workshop or a class you can dip into. Jos Houben is brilliant – if he’s got a masterclass or an intensive coming up then you must book! Also Told by an Idiot have workshops regularly! Be mindful in interactions, how maybe a turn of the head or a raised eyebrow, a smirk or a specific gesture can communicate a feeling, thought, instruction or response.

Mime is seldom seen on the commercial stage. How do you think it fits into today’s theatrical landscape?

JMR: The reason why I think the mime that Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel are known for is still relevant today is because of the formula that the two performers used for their work. Stan was a great performer before, but it’s kind of a real testament to what it is like to be in a comedy duo and playing off each other. I think those two were so brilliant at showcasing that. Charlie Chaplin showcases what it’s like to be a solo performer and really, really hone in on your craft. It’s work that will be timeless. I don’t think it will ever die out.

DB: I think the silent movie era is so influential for all comedy today and it’s stood the test of time. It’s funny, it’s clear, it’s clever – it’s universal as there’s no language barrier. The communication is funny and clear and simple and classic.

What’s one thing you hope the audience takes away with them?

JMR: I think the show is unique and chooses to tell this story in an unconventional way, so I hope the audience leaves with that feeling of they have just seen something special but most importantly hope they have a laugh. It’s been a tough couple of years. We all deserve that. 

DB: Ultimately I hope the audience has a lovely time! We want to entertain the audience, making them laugh and maybe even a tear – as Charlie writes at the beginning of his iconic film The Kid. He was so full of pathos that at the drop of a hat he could make you laugh and move you emotionally in equal measure.

Are there any particular moments in the show that have been hard to master?

JMR: Yes, I’d say playing such an iconic man who everyone loves so greatly has its pros and cons. I truly respect Told by an Idiot for their casting decisions with me, a mixed-heritage man, playing Stan, and Danielle Bird, a woman, playing Charlie. I urge more companies to do the same. What I will say, though, is sometimes it is a little disheartening looking in the mirror and realising I look nothing like Stan Laurel. Not only are we different races, but we have different hair, lips, nose and eyes, we are of different heights and come from quite different backgrounds… the list goes on. However, this is the beauty of acting! After researching more and more about this man, I’ve realised that we also have so many similarities and I realised that I could really bring my version of Stan Laurel to life. I spent hours and hours working on his physicality and all the little facial expressions and mannerisms. It’s tiring and honestly sometimes tedious but that’s what is required to bring the essence of the brilliant Stan Laurel. Oh and also getting out of a wobbly bunk bed – that is also tough to master. 

DB: This is a fun question! Of course, rehearsals are full of hard work, discipline, detail, repetition, failures and wins. My initial response to this question, however, is that I’d rather not reveal the moments hard to master as I’d prefer anyone watching to see the show for what it is during that specific, live, shared performance, hopefully polished (with room for playfulness), and to take on the characters for who they are rather than an awareness of the actors – even though we are constantly thinking of the craft. I guess we are like swans gliding above the water with those frantic feet underneath.

What’s it like working with each other in this show?

JMR: It’s such a brilliant company, so kind and so talented. And the work that you create under Told by an Idiot, it’s just a joy. So it’s great I get to work with all my mates. My favourite thing about the company is probably the ethos, the way that they create work without it seeming like a stressful thing, like allowing the space in the room for people to really shine and also honing in on people’s talents. Every single show that I’ve done with Told by an Idiot I’ve really enjoyed doing. And when I get that call, usually from Paul Hunter on my phone, and it’s random, it’s a Tuesday, it’s at 3pm, and I go, “Why is Paul ringing me?” And I think, maybe this could be a job. I know if he’s going to offer me a job and I’m free, I’m going to take it, because I love working with the company and I really love working with him.

DB: I’m really excited to be catching up with and seeing everyone again and working on those juicy physicalities! It’s so fun to be part of the show and also Told by an Idiot’s 30^th birthday celebrations in 2023. The company is really playful, they’re really creative, they’re inclusive. It’s a really fun rehearsal room, very collaborative, and has silly jokes. I mean, it’s in the name, isn’t it? I’m looking forward to getting back on the road and reaching a wider audience. And the audience loved it last time. So here’s to bringing that joy to more people this time!

What’s on your theatre bucket list? 

JMR: West End – I was very fortunate to tick this off a couple of months ago. Broadway – create and direct my own show.

DB: When I was at drama school we were asked to write down our top five job ambitions, and for 21-year-old Dani, three of those were theatre-related – working with the RSC, the Globe and the Royal Court. Of these three I’ve proudly ticked off two (the Globe and the RSC), so here’s keeping my fingers crossed for a call from Amy Ball at the Court!

Natallia Pearmain

Charlie and Stan is on at Wilton’s Music Hall from 18^th January until 4^th February 2023. For further information or to book visit the theatre’s website here.

Read our review here.