“We promised to use local produce but it was too cold. So I stepped into the wilderness to find flavours”: René Redzepi in conversation with Andoni Aduriz on the origins of Noma and the future of gastronomy

As the three-day international convention Madrid Fusión comes to an end, it’s clear that the highlight of the event was the conversation between Andoni Luis Aduriz of Mugaritz and René Redzepi of Noma. The two “chefs provocateurs” stimulated each other, with Aduriz playing mostly the role of the interviewer-presenter. “The day people stop questioning what we do, it’s all over,” said the man at the helm of the Copenhagen restaurant. “Each year there’s no new ingredient in nature, you have to look at the same stuff in a new way, looking for fresh opportunity. It’s really hard to keep filling yourself with fresh input after 25 years looking at lamb bellies and kokotxas.”

The conversation touched on many hot topics, including the role of critics in the industry and their effect on his work: “20 years ago, when we opened, there was one food critic and they could fill your restaurant for five years. Now it’s Chef’s Table, and it will do it for a year. I used to read every critique, even on Trip Advisor, and it drove me crazy. Now I’ve switched it off – only the real critique comes to our table, and good critique is amazing. If you only listen to your voice you become a Putin of sorts.”

The Danish chef of Macedonian descent also shed some light on the restaurant’s early days in November 2003, when they first opened: “We promised to use local produce, but it was too cold. So I stepped into the wilderness to find flavours. I never knew if my home was Yugoslavia or Denmark, [suddenly] I felt like I belonged to a place for the first time in my life. There, you learn seasons. Every decision I made led me back to that concept of time and space; it’s the most important philosophy.” If using local seasonal food was the most important lesson, the consequence was that in order to use summer products over winter, they had to find a way to conserve it: “We started to use pickling, fermentation, drying, smoking. 20 years later we have this bank of knowledge. Before, we used to try 20,000 different fermentation techniques, now we are trying one at a time, with the whole team, like we are doing with lacto-fermentation.”

When Redzepi explained how a project like the Smoked Mushroom Garum (which is now selling all over the world) can help with the finances of Noma and thus the quality of life for their employees – “we need a model forward to find different economics, coming out with a product ten years ago would have been a sellout” – Arduiz challenged the Danish colleague with a question regarding the environmental impact of this move: “When is it acceptable for produce to travel?”. As Redzepi tried to formulate an answer, the chef from Mugaritz claimed he already has one: “Don’t travel if you don’t bring value. If it brings value it’s worth it,” to which Redzepi said, “I love this answer. I always wonder: what is the right thing to do? Should we stop to travel and eat? It’s a complex question, and we need large-scale political solutions. [For instance,] at Noma we choose to have only electricity from windmills and no plastic bags. But [the broader question is] does food matter? Does fine dining matter? Enjoyment of life is always problematic in Denmark.” This seems to be an almost existential doubt for the Danish chef: “But then, we don’t need a pillow, we don’t need a bed… What about what we need to feel alive? Restaurants are essence of culture, of being alive.”

The conversation then moved to the changes awaiting the restaurant industry: “Spain was the first place where dedicated kitchens were set up for the development of new dishes, today it would be cutting-edge to set up a lab for how to run your staff. Everything will be more expensive because there’s a human cost behind the real cost of good food. Today, food is still too cheap. But it’s coming, it’s happening in Scandinavia.”

Filippo L’Astorina, the Editor
Photos: Filippo L’Astorina

For further information about Madrid Fusión 2022 visit the event’s website here.